My thoughts on "spygate"

[stevealmighty]

I'm about tired of reading about spygate, how the Pats are evil, how they've tainted the NFL as a whole, how Bill Belichick is a lousy, good for nothing, heartless S.O.B., and how everyone that's involved with the Patriots are classless, from the owner, to the coaching staff, to the players down to the personnel that do the team laundry and classless certainly includes the pathetic lying (and probably cheating) fans themselves. The Pats cheated, point blank, end of discussion....now let's spend more than 6 months beating them up for it (along with beating the list of aforementioned folks, too).

First off, the Pats did not cheat. Yes, I said it, they did not cheat. Ok, so I can't prove that. So, you prove it-prove that the Pats did in fact "cheat".....you can't, and neither can Commissioner Goodell or the NFL's competition committee, or a Senator from PA. I know what you're thinking, and the answer is NO. The Pats were not fined for cheating. They were fined for violating the following rule: "Videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game.", which was put out in a memo before the '07 season started. Had the camera operator been in a booth enclosed on 3 sides with a roof overhead out of view of the coaches, spygate would never have been started. Instead, Belichick admits that he told the camera man to stand in plain view, adorned with Pats Staff badges and film the defensive signals....in plain view...let me say that again, in plain view. Why did I say that three times? Do you honestly think that a head coach would put a camera in the hands of an employee and tell them to go over and video tape the opposing teams defensive coach if he didn't think it was OK? Of course not, and if you said yes that Belichick would do that then you're fooling yourself. Coaches have complained for years about cheating, and I mean years. HERE's an article that takes a story out of a 1967 magazine (sport) that talks about cheating in the NFL. Don't think that's enough? I came across this article HERE in the Bleacher Report. It's got 5 valid points where the NFL has jumped in and punished teams for "cheating", yet, none of them were as stiff as the punishment that was handed down to the Patriots and their staff. Still not enough? Well, how about when John Madden said stealing signs is nothing new.

The Pats got bad mouthed so much this year simply because they were on fire-they were, arguably, the best team that the NFL has seen in some 35 (or more) years. The 2007 season they went 18-1 which includes a perfect (UNDEFEATED) season, with the only loss being in the Super Bowl. Don't think that the Pats are (arguably) the best team ever? Here's some of the records that the Patriots (and/or Patriot players) broke in ONLY 2007 season:

Set the record for most wins in a regular season

Tom Brady set the single-season record for most touchdowns in a season with 50

Randy Moss broke the record for most touchdown receptions in a season with 23

Highest scoring team ever in a regular season, scoring 589 points

Tom Brady connected with Randy Moss for more touchdowns this season than any other quarterback has to any other receiver in any single season, ever. With 23 touchdowns, they shattered the previous high of 18 held by Dan Marino / Mark Clayton and Brett Favre / Sterling Sharpe.

The Patriots also set a record for most touchdowns scored in a season with 75, breaking Miami's record of 70

Randy Moss became the first receiver in history to get 100 yards in his first 3 games with a new team, then in week 4 with the Pats Moss had 102 yards

Ellis Hobbs returned the opening kickoff of the second half 108 yards for a touchdown setting the NFL record for longest kickoff return.

21 different players scored a touchdown for the Patriots, tying the record also held by the 1987 Rams and the 2000 Broncos.

If you care to dispute these records, you'll have to prove I'm wrong. Yes, I accidently closed the FireFox window I had the links open in.

Enough about the team-what about that loser of a coach Belichick? Here's something that I posted earlier on TSB:

Despite the "Spygate" scandal, BBwas still named NFL 2007 Associated Press Coach of the Year. He's also been named and/or awarded AFC Coach of the Year (Committee of 101), Coach of the Year (Pro Football Writers of America/Pro Football Weekly), Coach of the Year (Dr. Z's All-Pros_), NFL Coach of the Year (FieldTurf), NFL Coach of the Year (Rick Gosselin, Dallas Morning News), NFL Coach of the Week for Week 17 (NFL.com), NFL Coach of the Year (USA TODAY), The Bill Walsh Award (USA TODAY), Earle 'Greasy' Neale Award: Pro Coach of the Year (Maxwell Football Club) and NFL Coach of the Week for Week 6 (NFL.com). That was just this past year. He's coached his team to 16-0 regular season, 18-1 including the playoffs, helping his team set records, brake records, all while dealing with Spygate, his personal life and the personal lives of his players. I'd say that's pretty special.

With that said, most, if not all teams love their head coaches, specially the ones that help to create dynasties and win 3 Superbowls in 4 years along with 4 AFC titles in 7 years, and making it to the playoffs 6 out of 7 years, and managed to coach successful seasons with winning records from 2001-2007 (all from 2000 to present day).

With all that said, I'm probably missing a few records someplace, but I'm sure that by now you get the idea.

Moving on....

What about those cocky, trash talking players? Hmmmm...I won't deny that there's a TON of smack talk going on in the NFL. I will say that the Pats did, IMHO, the least amount of it. You won't find a Pats player from 2007 saying how they guarantee a victory over an opposing team or talk smack about an opposing team even when an opposing team talked smack about them (Steelers and Chargers). It wasn't Pats fans whom booed a 14 year old girl due to the jersey she was wearing(Note that Robert Kraft, in a show of "class", honored the teen by having her watch the coin toss at center fieldby making her guest captain of the Patriots for the game).

Oh behold! The spygate scandall continues to grow because the "powers that be" deem it so! Nope, wrong there, too. The NFL's competition committee said "It was a thorough, fair process with lots of integrity. We were satisfied with what was done." As of this post, we're still waiting on Matt Walsh to strike a deal with the NFL so that he can show his tapes to the world. To whatever evidence he's got, I'll have to hear Belichick or Kraft on the tapes saying "Ya, go tape that other team, it's ok, it's worth the risk to get caught!"

The point of this post was NOT to bash any other team (sorry to those fans of the teams I did bring up), nor was it to justify the Patriots actions, or the actions of it's employees (including head coach).

The point of this post WAS to shed light on the subject of spygate, bringing up points that the average Joe might not know...to show that the Pats fans aren't classless, nor are the players or staff (I'd like to think the same of all the NFL's teams). That the Pats didn't get fined for what they were video taping, but how they were video taping it. I'd also like to note that Goodell stated that the taping in the Jets game was not a factor in the outcome of the game, and that nothing had been presented that showed that the Pats were using the tapes for in game use or halftime adjustments. Goodell also mentioned that he didn't think that spygate tainted the Pats accomplishments for the 07 season.

The reason why the tapes and notes were destroyed (the tapes and the notes that the Pats gave to the commish) was because Goodell didn't want them leaked out into the public where other teams could get hold of them and use them against the Jets. "We thought we had locked it up, and it got out five days later," Goodell said. "That was one of my concerns."

Here's how I'm looking at the whole spygate thing: We were caught doing something wrong even though we thought it was OK. We were punished, we paid our dues and we moved on. It's been 6 months (SIX MONTHS!!!) and people still carry on about it, saying such things as "they're classless", "they should have their Lombardi trophies taken away", "they're all cheaters", and blah blah blah. I've been a Pats fan since I was a fetus. I was a fan when they were wining one and 2 games a season. I was a fan when they won 3 Super Bowls in 4 years. I was a fan in the 2007 season when they went 18-1 and lost in a crushing upset to the NY Giants. I'll be a fan through out the entire spygate scandal. When all the smoke clears, I'll still be a fan of the New England Patriots. Chances are that I'll die a Pats fan.

The Patriots should be proud of what they've done this season. I know I am.

Respectfully,

Steve

[m3th0ds]

It's got 5 valid points where the NFL has jumped in and punished teams for "cheating", yet, none of them were as stiff as the punishment that was handed down to the Patriots and their staff.

This doesn't strike you as odd? If cases where teams were actually caught of "cheating" didn't get punished nearly as much as the Pats did, doesn't that tell you something?

You can "think" they didn't cheat all you want, but having a first round pick taken away, along with a $500,000 fine would say otherwise. I realize you want this to go away so your Patriots can go back to being looked at as a "model franchise", but it's just not going to happen. That's like asking for all the steroid issues in baseball to go away. These issues just aren't going anywhere until they are thoroughly looked over.

I'm not going to even get into your "best ever" argument, as it's not relevant, and is an issue of personal preference, but in my eyes, you have to win the title to even be up for that title.

[NEsince92]

Wonderful composition Steve. I'll respond tomorrow morning ... too tired right now.

[stevealmighty]

Originally Posted by m3th0ds

This doesn't strike you as odd? If cases where teams were actually caught of "cheating" didn't get punished nearly as much as the Pats did, doesn't that tell you something?

You can "think" they didn't cheat all you want, but having a first round pick taken away, along with a $500,000 fine would say otherwise. I realize you want this to go away so your Patriots can go back to being looked at as a "model franchise", but it's just not going to happen. That's like asking for all the steroid issues in baseball to go away. These issues just aren't going anywhere until they are thoroughly looked over.

I'm not going to even get into your "best ever" argument, as it's not relevant, and is an issue of personal preference, but in my eyes, you have to win the title to even be up for that title.

What strikes me as odd is that some of the penalties imposed in those links were for "cheating", and they were a fraction of what the Pats were fined for. Not to mention that Goodell fined the team for Belichicks actions, even though he was only the head coach, he still fined the organization due to Belichicks ""Coach Belichick not only serves as the head coach but also has substantial control over all aspects of New England's football operations." So, the team got fined even though the coach had got fined....and the coach got fined even though the team got fined....sounds like double jeopardy to me, but there's more when you dock a 1st round draft pick and/or 2/3 round picks depending on if the team makes the playoffs or not.

Also, in one of my links it stated that "New England was docked a first-round draft pick, a $500,000 fine to Patriots coach Bill Belichick and a $250,000 fine to the team -- before the Pats had turned over evidence." Doesn't that seem odd that a punishment would be handed out before evidence was looked at?

And, how did they cheat if they didn't get fined for cheating? If they had put the camera man in another section, like in the press box, the league wouldn't have a leg to stand on if they wanted to impose penalties, as the camera man would have been operating within the league rules. Essentially, the Pats (and BB) was fined for not having a camera man in a location that's enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead. That's the key thing here, is that put this camera man in the press box and spygate would've never happened. What gets me as a fan is that this has been a media feeding frenzy, and I'm sick of it TBH. At this point (6 months later), I think I'd be sick of it if it were any other team, or if it were the Pats and I hated the Pats.

As for MHO of the Pats being the best ever, I'd even argue that one. They might be, and they might not be, but you're absolutely right in that it's a matter of opinion, and I respect that.

[JerseyPatsFan19]

Right on Steve, GO PATS. We still rule, and even if we did cheat everyone else does. The Pats are going all the way next year and we gonna kill the other teams.
BTW- A personal message to Dave Tyree...Enjoy it while you can you Helmet Hugging SOB!!!! Damn i'm so pumped for next year and its only march

[broadwayjoe2]

Originally Posted by stevealmighty

I'm about tired of reading about spygate, how the Pats are evil, how they've tainted the NFL as a whole, how Bill Belichick is a lousy, good for nothing, heartless S.O.B., and how everyone that's involved with the Patriots are classless, from the owner, to the coaching staff, to the players down to the personnel that do the team laundry and classless certainly includes the pathetic lying (and probably cheating) fans themselves. The Pats cheated, point blank, end of discussion....now let's spend more than 6 months beating them up for it (along with beating the list of aforementioned folks, too).

First off, the Pats did not cheat. Yes, I said it, they did not cheat. Ok, so I can't prove that. So, you prove it-prove that the Pats did in fact "cheat".....you can't, and neither can Commissioner Goodell or the NFL's competition committee, or a Senator from PA. I know what you're thinking, and the answer is NO. The Pats were not fined for cheating. They were fined for violating the following rule: "Videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game.", which was put out in a memo before the '07 season started. Had the camera operator been in a booth enclosed on 3 sides with a roof overhead out of view of the coaches, spygate would never have been started. Instead, Belichick admits that he told the camera man to stand in plain view, adorned with Pats Staff badges and film the defensive signals....in plain view...let me say that again, in plain view. Why did I say that three times? Do you honestly think that a head coach would put a camera in the hands of an employee and tell them to go over and video tape the opposing teams defensive coach if he didn't think it was OK? Of course not, and if you said yes that Belichick would do that then you're fooling yourself. Coaches have complained for years about cheating, and I mean years. HERE's an article that takes a story out of a 1967 magazine (sport) that talks about cheating in the NFL. Don't think that's enough? I came across this article HERE in the Bleacher Report. It's got 5 valid points where the NFL has jumped in and punished teams for "cheating", yet, none of them were as stiff as the punishment that was handed down to the Patriots and their staff. Still not enough? Well, how about when John Madden said stealing signs is nothing new.

The Pats got bad mouthed so much this year simply because they were on fire-they were, arguably, the best team that the NFL has seen in some 35 (or more) years. The 2007 season they went 18-1 which includes a perfect (UNDEFEATED) season, with the only loss being in the Super Bowl. Don't think that the Pats are (arguably) the best team ever? Here's some of the records that the Patriots (and/or Patriot players) broke in ONLY 2007 season:

Set the record for most wins in a regular season

Tom Brady set the single-season record for most touchdowns in a season with 50

Randy Moss broke the record for most touchdown receptions in a season with 23

Highest scoring team ever in a regular season, scoring 589 points

Tom Brady connected with Randy Moss for more touchdowns this season than any other quarterback has to any other receiver in any single season, ever. With 23 touchdowns, they shattered the previous high of 18 held by Dan Marino / Mark Clayton and Brett Favre / Sterling Sharpe.

The Patriots also set a record for most touchdowns scored in a season with 75, breaking Miami's record of 70

Randy Moss became the first receiver in history to get 100 yards in his first 3 games with a new team, then in week 4 with the Pats Moss had 102 yards

Ellis Hobbs returned the opening kickoff of the second half 108 yards for a touchdown setting the NFL record for longest kickoff return.

21 different players scored a touchdown for the Patriots, tying the record also held by the 1987 Rams and the 2000 Broncos.

If you care to dispute these records, you'll have to prove I'm wrong. Yes, I accidently closed the FireFox window I had the links open in.

Enough about the team-what about that loser of a coach Belichick? Here's something that I posted earlier on TSB:

Despite the "Spygate" scandal, BBwas still named NFL 2007 Associated Press Coach of the Year. He's also been named and/or awarded AFC Coach of the Year (Committee of 101), Coach of the Year (Pro Football Writers of America/Pro Football Weekly), Coach of the Year (Dr. Z's All-Pros_), NFL Coach of the Year (FieldTurf), NFL Coach of the Year (Rick Gosselin, Dallas Morning News), NFL Coach of the Week for Week 17 (NFL.com), NFL Coach of the Year (USA TODAY), The Bill Walsh Award (USA TODAY), Earle 'Greasy' Neale Award: Pro Coach of the Year (Maxwell Football Club) and NFL Coach of the Week for Week 6 (NFL.com). That was just this past year. He's coached his team to 16-0 regular season, 18-1 including the playoffs, helping his team set records, brake records, all while dealing with Spygate, his personal life and the personal lives of his players. I'd say that's pretty special.

With that said, most, if not all teams love their head coaches, specially the ones that help to create dynasties and win 3 Superbowls in 4 years along with 4 AFC titles in 7 years, and making it to the playoffs 6 out of 7 years, and managed to coach successful seasons with winning records from 2001-2007 (all from 2000 to present day).

With all that said, I'm probably missing a few records someplace, but I'm sure that by now you get the idea.

Moving on....

What about those cocky, trash talking players? Hmmmm...I won't deny that there's a TON of smack talk going on in the NFL. I will say that the Pats did, IMHO, the least amount of it. You won't find a Pats player from 2007 saying how they guarantee a victory over an opposing team or talk smack about an opposing team even when an opposing team talked smack about them (Steelers and Chargers). It wasn't Pats fans whom booed a 14 year old girl due to the jersey she was wearing(Note that Robert Kraft, in a show of "class", honored the teen by having her watch the coin toss at center fieldby making her guest captain of the Patriots for the game).

Oh behold! The spygate scandall continues to grow because the "powers that be" deem it so! Nope, wrong there, too. The NFL's competition committee said "It was a thorough, fair process with lots of integrity. We were satisfied with what was done." As of this post, we're still waiting on Matt Walsh to strike a deal with the NFL so that he can show his tapes to the world. To whatever evidence he's got, I'll have to hear Belichick or Kraft on the tapes saying "Ya, go tape that other team, it's ok, it's worth the risk to get caught!"

The point of this post was NOT to bash any other team (sorry to those fans of the teams I did bring up), nor was it to justify the Patriots actions, or the actions of it's employees (including head coach).

The point of this post WAS to shed light on the subject of spygate, bringing up points that the average Joe might not know...to show that the Pats fans aren't classless, nor are the players or staff (I'd like to think the same of all the NFL's teams). That the Pats didn't get fined for what they were video taping, but how they were video taping it. I'd also like to note that Goodell stated that the taping in the Jets game was not a factor in the outcome of the game, and that nothing had been presented that showed that the Pats were using the tapes for in game use or halftime adjustments. Goodell also mentioned that he didn't think that spygate tainted the Pats accomplishments for the 07 season.

The reason why the tapes and notes were destroyed (the tapes and the notes that the Pats gave to the commish) was because Goodell didn't want them leaked out into the public where other teams could get hold of them and use them against the Jets. "We thought we had locked it up, and it got out five days later," Goodell said. "That was one of my concerns."

Here's how I'm looking at the whole spygate thing: We were caught doing something wrong even though we thought it was OK. We were punished, we paid our dues and we moved on. It's been 6 months (SIX MONTHS!!!) and people still carry on about it, saying such things as "they're classless", "they should have their Lombardi trophies taken away", "they're all cheaters", and blah blah blah. I've been a Pats fan since I was a fetus. I was a fan when they were wining one and 2 games a season. I was a fan when they won 3 Super Bowls in 4 years. I was a fan in the 2007 season when they went 18-1 and lost in a crushing upset to the NY Giants. I'll be a fan through out the entire spygate scandal. When all the smoke clears, I'll still be a fan of the New England Patriots. Chances are that I'll die a Pats fan.

The Patriots should be proud of what they've done this season. I know I am.

Respectfully,

Steve

You really believe that the league was 'out to get' the Pats?

Explain exactly what 'the powers that be' have to gain by pushing this into the limelight IF this situation isn't serious.

What exactly does the NFL have to gain?

The answer of course is NOTHING. If the infractions were completely minor in nature, they wouldn't be investigating to the extent they are.

Obviously there was enough going on that the league felt the need to seriously address the situation by docking the Pats a pick and fining BB and the team.

Whether you choose to believe they cheated or not (the answer of course is obvious to anyone not wearing Pats colored glasses) is not relevent.

Having someone film defensive signals while creeping around on the Jets sidelines WEARING Jets clothing, screams cheating. They knew it was against the rules and were told so before the season and BB decided to take his chances and continue the practice.

He got caught...so swallow your medicine and man up.

They have nobody to blame but themselves. So why would it be any surprise that the Pats are under the microscope now? The league has to protect the integrity of the game, and will do whatever it takes to make sure that no further incidents occur.

So you can continue to moan about how 'everyone cheats' but until they get caught, you don't have a leg to stand on.

[stevealmighty]

Did you read the first post I made? I mean really read it, not just skim through it? I posted facts and links (and yes, some of my very own opinion) and you come back and post your opinion with minor insults and attempt to force them as fact? Come one now-facts are facts, and you seem to be lacking them. The commish fined BB and the Pats without even having a face to face interview-the spoke on the phone and that's it. But hey, by your standards that's ok? That's like getting a speeding ticket and not having a court date and just being judged as guilty going on what was already presented.

I never said that the NFL was out to get the Pats, nor did I say that the league had anything to gain by any of this.

Let's ignore your opinion that you posted and look at the facts you posted in last post........ok, so there's no facts to look at that you made, only your opinion. Hmmm....it's hard to have a discussion with someone that makes no valid points. Retreat, regroup and try again if you like.

And I'd like to see a link to a reputable news site (or something similar) stating that the Pats employee was wearing JETS clothes. Last I heard he had, and from what I saw on the internet, he wasn't wearing JETS clothes and the initial complaint from the JETS was that they know he was an official Pats employee because of his credentials.

Fact of the matter is that the Pats did not cheat-camera location was the issue-you know it, I know it, and that's what they were fined for. No matter what colored glasses you look thorugh-you can't argue that.

Seems like in my initial post I gave links and evidence and provided more than just my opinion. I've got all sorts of legs to stand on.

Unless you can provide links and whatnot, and not just argue your opinion, then I'll consider your posts moot.

[House of Steel]

First off, welcome back Stevealmighty.

Secondly, why in the world are we still bringing this subject up? Relax, folks, we are into a new season where the NFL Draft is happening next weekend. This Spygate thing is old and ancient history. Time to be ready for the new season. You watch if the Patriots get their bite in the ass for this so called cheating. I am waiting for a good old duel between the Steelers and the Pats Brady better watch for this .

[stevealmighty]

Hey HoS! I've been here, just been a while since I posted (been reading mostly).

Yes, this "spygate" thing is ancient history, but it'll be a while before some people let it go. Opinions vary, and some tend to mistake opinions for facts (hey, we've all done it!). I think it'll all be forgotten midway through next season.

As for the Steelers/Pats match up......watch out Big Ben, the Bruschi and the boys are comin' at ya!!!

[House of Steel]

Isn't Bruschi needing a walker real soon? Yeah I know, big mouth I got. It is going to be a great game, I look forward to it. Man, we owe you guys a beating for all those time you made me cry in my terrible towel for beating us in the AFC Championship games at Heinz Field. :cry.