TSB 2008 MLB Hall of Fame poll

[TestSubjekt]

There's 11 new candidates on the 2008 Hall of Fame ballot. That means it's time once again for TSB members to vote for players eligible for the MLB Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, NY.

Let me guess...You're asking yourself "How's this gonna work?"

Much like the baseball writers, we are going to select as many players as we think should go into the Hall of Fame. At the end of the voting period those named on 75% of the ballots gains induction. That's right. In this poll you can select more than one name.

Listed below are their HOF profiles with their notable accomplishments from their careers.


2008 Candidates
The 2008 ballot features 25 candidates, with 14 returnees and 11 newcomers.

• Brady Anderson • Harold Baines • Rod Beck • Bert Blyleven • Dave Concepcion • Andre Dawson • Shawon Dunston • Chuck Finley • Travis Fryman • Rich Gossage • Tommy John • David Justice • Chuck Knoblauch

• Don Mattingly • Mark McGwire • Jack Morris • Dale Murphy • Robb Nen • Dave Parker • Tim Raines • Jim Rice • Jose Rijo • Lee Smith • Todd Stottlemyre • Alan Trammell

[BulaJacket]

As I'm not going to go thoroughly through stats, and compare them to current HOFers,
my contribution is somewhat off the top of my head, memory, and those bios.
I might be a little bit off on one or two of these.

[BulaJacket]

Nearly no one gets voted into the Hall of Fame by TSB!

I apparently like how you think though TestSubjekt.

[BulaJacket]

Jeez....gonna have to use 50% to even have a couple eligible @ TSB.

[slagonia]

Mattingly, Raines, Gossage and Dawson.

If it were up to me, I'd probably vote for Trammel anyway, just because I want to keep him on the ballot. He was a class-act, and a first-ballot hall of very gooder. Knobby too, since I was a big fan, but niether of them actually deserve to make it in.

[cmaleski2]

Don Mattingly?

I'll give you that Mattingly was a great hitter and a great fielder, but so was Steve Garvey. Mattingly had 4 great seasons offensively and few above average seasons and that's it. He cracked 120 RBIs ONCE. Hit 30 or more HRs 3 times. 1 MVP award.

Why would I put this guy in the Hall of Fame other than because he was the Yankees captain, had 4 great seasons, and is a nice guy? The fact that Mattingly is still on the ballot is only because the New York sportswriters list him out of habit as there in nothing close to a worthy Yankees position player candidate available for them to pick. 28.2%, 20.3%, 13.7%, 12.8%, 11.4%, 12.3%. 9.9%. He will stay on the ballot only because the 50 something sportswriters who continue to list him year after year simply remember his 4 glory years and ignore the other 10 Will Clark like seasons. Sure, if his back didn't give out he might have been HOF worthy, but those are the breaks.

[slagonia]

Originally Posted by cmaleski2

Don Mattingly?

I'll give you that Mattingly was a great hitter and a great fielder, but so was Steve Garvey. Mattingly had 4 great seasons offensively and few above average seasons and that's it. He cracked 120 RBIs ONCE. Hit 30 or more HRs 3 times. 1 MVP award.

Why would I put this guy in the Hall of Fame other than because he was the Yankees captain, had 4 great seasons, and is a nice guy? The fact that Mattingly is stil on the ballot is only because the New York sportswriters list him out of habit. 28.2%, 20.3%, 13.7%, 12.8%, 11.4%, 12.3%. 9.9%. He will stay on the ballot only because the 50 something sportswriters who continue to list him year after year simply remember his 4 glory years and ignore the other 10 Will Clark like seasons. Sure, if he back didn't give out he might have been HOF worthy, but those are the breaks.

Naturally coming from a guy with a bunch of Red Sox icons in his inventory.

Donnie Baseball was the entire Yankee team for a decade, and the center of everything worth rooting for. He was the best 1B in baseball for more than five years and may have been the best defensive first baseman in history. His numbers are about average for a hall of famer - not borderline - and he handled his entire career with grace and dignity.

It really comes down to this; I have a hard time voting for anyone on this list because none of them are better than Mattingly, and he's not in yet.

[cmaleski2]

If Don Mattingly played for the Minnesota Twins and had the same career, would he even be on the ballot still?

He was great for 5 years, then reduced to like I said, no better than Will Clark for 9 years. Heck Wally Joyner has more career RBIs than Mattingly. WALLY JOYNER! You don't get into the Hall as a 1B like that, at least no modern player will. 7 years of .280, 15 HR, 60 RBI seasons killed any chance Mattingly had. He's Steve Garvey with a slightly higher lifetime average and far less overall HRs and RBIs.

I like Don Mattingly, Don Mattingly is everything that is good about baseball. But the guy is not a HoF, he's just a great first baseman whose health killed what might have been a HoF worthy career. Not to worry, the NY writers will continue to list him, then in another 7 years they will find another Yankees player who was great for a very short strech to hang their hats on.

Yankee Stadium monument park worthy? Absolutely. HOF worthy? No (unless you are going to induct Steve Garvey, who most definitely isn't HoF worthy in my book).

[SteeleRED]

I voted for:

Bert Blyleven
Andre Dawson
Rich Gossage
Don Mattingly
Mark McGwire
Jim Rice
Lee Smith
Alan Trammell


That Blyleven, Dawson, Gossage, Smith, Rice and Trammell aren't already there is a shame, IMHO.
Mattingly may have been more gut than thought. And maybe I got caught up in the NY media hype about the guy.
McGwire? I've made my feelings clear in other threads about the villification of players "on the juice", and McGwire is unfairly villified in this because it wasn't illegal during part of his career. And he admitted past andro use, which is an anabolic steroid! But they didn't make him hit 70 HRs, or 58 HRs, or any HRs. Skill did! That he's not in the Hall is its own shame, and lends to its ever-growing lack of credibility.

OK, down off the box now...

[BulaJacket]

Originally Posted by SteeleRED

I voted for:

Bert Blyleven
Andre Dawson
Rich Gossage
Don Mattingly
Mark McGwire
Jim Rice
Lee Smith
Alan Trammell


That Blyleven, Dawson, Gossage, Smith, Rice and Trammell aren't already there is a shame, IMHO.
Mattingly may have been more gut than thought. And maybe I got caught up in the NY media hype about the guy.
McGwire? .... That he's not in the Hall is its own shame, and lends to its ever-growing lack of credibility.

I added Murphy, Morris, & Raines to your list.
Completely agree on your first line.
To me, one has to be considered one of the best at his position for at least a decade, and then put up respectable stats. I do agree that many time people are too focused on the big offensive stats (though they shouldn't be ignored), ignoring other statistics and defense.
I'm very suprised to see some of the vote counts (of course I don't think people realize they should vote for alot of people, who should be in, instead of the 4 they think should be inducted in a class or something).
Gossage and Rice are in IMO this year.
Dawson defined the OF position at times during his career and put up pretty good numbers. Blyleven did the same as a pitcher. I anticipate those two close to making it in on this ballot. Lee Smith defined the role of a closer, and Alan Trammell was a rock with Whitaker and one of the best at his position for a long time.
As for Mattingly, people overlook defense way too much.
I'm not sure Omar Vizquel will get serious consideration, but he has been a defensive GEM, just like the Wizard Ozzie Smith.
Mattingly was the man at first, defined the Yankees and was one of the best at his position for nearly a decade. Sure his offensive stats declined, but you didn't mention the fielding pct for example. Sure, he'd be an average HOFer, but IMO should be a HOFer nonetheless.
And BTW, I freakin hate the Yankees.
McGwire: I'm glad he didn't get voted in on the first ballot, and I wouldn't have voted him in then either, but those are fair points, and why I did vote for him in this, in this year now.
I also think not enough people give enough credit to Dale Murphy.
Jack Morris was incredibly steady for a long time, and one of the best as a Tiger, and then Twin. He has some pretty good stats too. He was a clutch pitcher who came up big in some big games. I don't know if he's going to get as much consideration as he should, but he should be in IMO.
Tim Raines is very borderline to me (his Expos career was HOF material, afterwards...not so much), but I don't look at who shouldn't be in more than would they deserve to be in. He's close, so I gave him the nod; wouldn't oppose to him not making it though, and I don't think he will.


Here's my order, just for my frame of reference:
Jim Rice
Rich Gossage
Mark McGwire
Andre Dawson
Bert Blyleven
Lee Smith
Dale Murphy
Don Mattingly
Alan Trammell
Jack Morris